bible fight club

in the dank basement of a tattoo parlor believers of a multitude of faiths or the lack thier of gather to duke it out about the Bible and other matters from a Christian view. ink is not require but expect nothing but bare knuckle Bible thumpin'.

http://asap.ap.org/data/interactives/_lifestyles/podcasts/0913asap_BFC.mp3

Last Weekend

Last Saturday I graduated from The Baptist Missionary Assocation Theological Seminary with a Master Of Arts in Religion. Whew! Am I glad it is over with, yet i wil miss it. One of my professors told me I will be overwelmed with depression in a few weeks because I will not be around anyone who will beable to discuss theology with me at the level I am used to. I pray not.

I will post a photo or two soon.

So much has happened since and I have been worn out by all the stuff since. Boy, am I tired.

WHERE DID THEY COME FROM???

When and where did Baptists originate. Where did they come from and are the so gosh-golly-gee great anyway. Well the last part will not be answered but I would like to turn your attention to part of Dr. Phillip R. Bryan’s thesis from 1966. He later did his Ph.D. work at Baylor under. Dr. Ray Summers.

Dr. Bryan is currently the President Emeritus at BMA Theological Seminary and teaches Theology. He will was part of the planning committee for Baptist History Celebration that will take place in Charleston, S.C. and was invited to lecture at this meeting

Successionist Theories

The oldest and most generally accepted theory of Baptist origins has been the successionist theory. Essentially the view is that Baptists have had a continuity of existence since the days of Jesus' ministry. William Wright Barnes has differentiated four variations of tho theory: (1) church succession, (2) apostolic succession, (3) baptismal succession, and (4) spiritual succession. He has maintained that one extreme form of church succession is the same as the Roman Catholic theory of church succession. Although four types are delineated, "the first three theories or emphases are logically related and historically associated." All three maintain that "a valid church must validly authorize a minister in order that a baptism may be valid." Representative Baptist historians who have advocated succession are:(1)Thomas Crosby, (2) G. H, Orchard, (3) J. M. Cramp, (4) William Cathcart, and (5) John T. Christian.
Professor William Morgan Patterson of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary was apparently the author of the only extensive critique and analysis of the successionist theories, although other less extensive studies have been made. He has concluded that successionist writers wrote from an apologetical and polemical approach and that their conclusions were based upon a priori reasoning and not scientific methodology.

Anabaptist Spiritual Kinship Theory

A theory "held by those who trace a spiritual relationship of Baptists through the long line of Anabaptist sects, such as German, Dutch and Swiss Anabaptists, the Waldensians and Petrobrusians, the Henricians, the Novatians, and the Donatists," is the Anabaptist spiritual kinship theory. While no direct organic continuity between these various sects is verifiable, the adherents of this interpretation have asserted that throughout history such minority groups have practiced believer's baptism and therefore, have a "spiritual kinship." As related to Baptist practice, such a view precludes the necessity of organic continuity in either baptisms or ordinations for baptism to be valid. Representative historians maintaining the Anabaptist spiritual kinship view have been: (1) David Benedict, (2) Richard B. Cook, (3) Thomas Armitage, (4) Albert H. Newman, and (5) Walter Rauschenbusch. Apparently no critical analysis has been devoted per se to the spiritual kinship theory except for the points questioned by the historians who have advocated the English Separatist descent theory.

English Separatist Descent Theory

Briefly, the chief affirmation of the English Separatist descent theory is that only those to whom the name Baptist was actually applied should be so considered and that "the Baptists originated with certain English Separatists who were congregational in polity and who had come to consider believers' baptism alone as valid according to the Scriptures." This interpretation is compatible with the view that only the proper candidate (professed believer) and proper purpose (public testimony) are necessary for valid baptism. Although numerous articles covering various aspects of this theory have appeared in scholarly journals, apparently no single monograph has been devoted exclusively to a critical analysis of the theory. The present investigation, therefore, is an effort to provide such an analysis. Several variations of the Separatist descent theory have emerged since the 1880's.

Ten fold ministry

A preacher's work is never done and often misunderstood. Take a look at this Brit's blog about Ten propositions on being a minister by Kim Fabricius. You will cheer, you will cry.

The Preacher's Coffee or Scriptural Baptism

The Preacher's Coffee by Ben M. Bogard

I have a pleasant story, which I wish to tell in rhyme, About a circuit preacher who lived in recent time. He was a circuit rider for good John Wesley's brand; And rode the finest circuit in all the blessed land.

At one of his good charges, some members, not a few, Became quite sorely troubled about the word "into". The Good Book says quite plainly, in Acts in chapter eight," They went down into water," as Baptist people state.


The preacher preached a sermon of extra zeal and might; And to his satisfaction, he set the passage right." 'Into' does not mean 'into,' but only 'at' or 'nearby'. They went down to the water and got a small supply.

"But near the place of worship, there lived a sister Brown. And for her splendid cooking, she'd gained a great renown. Her yellow-legged chickens, her lucious cakes and pies, Had often made that preacher roll up his weeping eyes.

And her delicious coffee! In all the circuit round, The preacher oft admitted, its like could not be found. So when he preached his sermon with extra power and length, He loved at the Brown's table to revive his ebbing strength.

But sister Brown was a Baptist, the strongest in the land; She oft reproved the Methodists for changing God's command. She heard the preacher's sermon, and thought the subject o'er. Then asked him home for dinner, as she oft had done before.

She ground her good brown coffee, her kettle steaming hot, And put it "at" or "nearby" the famous coffee pot.S he poured her guest a cupful (I think it was no sin),"But you forgot, dear sister, to put the coffee in."

"No, no, dear sir, that's coffee; I ground a good supply, And put it "at" the kettle ('into' is 'at' or 'nearby'). By the logic of your sermon (I thought it rather thin), If 'at' or 'nearby' is 'into' I put the coffee IN.

"So if you will truly promise, no more such stuff to teach, I'll go and make some coffee, in line with Bible speech. And this time I will follow instructions to the dot, And put the coffee INTO, not 'at' or 'near' the pot


Ben Bogard pastor, semiarian, writer,founder of the American Baptist Assocation, preeminent assocaitional baptist and was one of the greatest debaters in the Baptist Church during the first part of the 20th Century. Bogard debated men from several denominations and a woman (Aimee Semple McPherson)

Grudem on Seminary

Thinking about going to seminary? Well maybe Wayne Grudem could help you in your descision process.

Letter to a Prospective Seminarian

Decoding Culture - Acts 17:16-21

Act 17:16 Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was provoked within him when he saw that the city was given over to idols.

• His spirit was provoked within – I pray that this will happen to us.
• We will be aggravated, annoyed, irritated, goaded, forced to deal with the issues at hand, or that we see through believing eyes
• given over to idols -

Act 17:17 Therefore he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and with the Gentile worshipers, and in the

• He reasoned with them. He got in the mix. He rubbed elbows and traded words, he conversed, and like race fans put it- he traded paint.
• He discussed, disputed and preached to them
• At times it was logical reasoning and at moments it was hot debate
• marketplace daily – real ministry is not done behind white clapboards or with red bricks and white columns.
• Agorah is the Greek term- in the middle of the people
• Agoraphobia, literally translated as "a fear of the marketplace
• An agoraphobic does not fear people: he or she rather fears an embarrassing/dangerous situation with no escape.
• Some people with agoraphobia are comfortable seeing visitors, but only in a defined space they feel in control of.
• Such people may live for years without leaving their homes, while happily seeing visitors and working, as long as they can stay within their safety zones.
• We Are Stuck In Our Safety Zones

Act 17:18 Then certain Epicurean and Stoic philosophers encountered him. And some said, “What does this babbler want to say?” Others said, “He seems to be a proclaimer of foreign gods,” because he preached to them Jesus and the resurrection.

• Paul was in a place of many philosophies and ideas, not one truth, real truth was lost and what ever was good got you was your personal truth.
• They found our God foreign, alien, new, & strange.
• This was a different teaching and the concept of this God was far and distant.
  It is our Goal to be the salt and the light -Mat 5:13-16 "You are the salt of the earth, but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltiness be restored? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled under people's feet. (14) "You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. (15) Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house. (16) In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.
• How can we do this is we are not around the people
• If we are not in the marketplace then how can we affect the people that Jesus loves, because Jesus loves the reprobate too?

Act 17:19 And they took him and brought him to the Areopagus, saying, “May we know what this new doctrine is of which you speak?

• They wanted to know the who and the what about what Paul have being talking to them about
• They were hungry to know what he was talking about, Jesus and His Grace have become such a foreign concept that it is becoming new all over again.

Act 17:20-1 For you are bringing some strange things to our ears. Therefore we want to know what these things mean.” (21) For all the Athenians and the foreigners who were there spent their time in nothing else but either to tell or to hear some new thing.

• There was a time, just a few centuries ago, when nautical maps of Europe had legends that included the location of churches on land and church steeples doubled as navigational tools for ship captains. Churches were typically built on choice real estate in the center of town or atop the highest hill. And in some places, there were ordinances against building anything taller than the church steeple so it would occupy the place closest to heaven. Nothing was more visible on the pre-modern skyline than church steeples. And in a sense, church steeples symbolized the place of the church in culture. There was a day, in the not too distant past, when church was the center of culture. Church was the place to go. Church was the thing to do. Nothing was more visible than the church steeple. Nothing was more audible than the church bells. And it might be a slight exaggeration, but all the pre-modern church had to do was raise a steeple and ring a bell. Is it safe to say that things have changed?
• The church no longer enjoys a cultural monopoly.
• We know Scripture, but we're out of touch with the times. We are well studied in Sunday school we don’t know our neighbor
• The end result is a gap between theology and reality called irrelevance. Things that are ill relevant are insignificant, unimportant, worthless, inconsequential, trival – the Church was not called to be this
• Eph 5:35 says that he gave his life for it.
• We're out of touch with the very people we're trying to reach--the unchurched and dechurched. We've got to exegete our culture so we can close the gap. That's what incarnation is all about.
• The post-Christian church needs a revelation: irrelevance is irreverence!
• The church has four options when it comes to engaging culture: 1) ignore it, 2) imitate it, 3) condemn it, or 4) create it. And each option leads in polar opposite directions.
  
  
  • We can ignore culture, but the byproduct of ignorance is irrelevance. The more we ignore culture the more irrelevant we'll become. And if the church ignores the culture, the culture will ignore the church.
    
  • We can imitate culture, but imitation is a form of suicide. Originality is sacrificed on the altar of cultural conformity. If we don't shape the culture, the culture will shape us.
    
  • We can condemn culture, but condemnation is a cop out. Let me just call it what it is: condemnation is spiritual laziness. We've got to stop pointing the finger and start offering better alternatives. If the church condemns the culture, the culture will condemn the church.
  
  
• Those three options will lead the church down a dead-end road to irrelevance, but there is another option--the only option if we're serious about fulfilling the Great Commission and incarnating the gospel. We can compete for culture by creating culture.
• In the immortal words of the Italian artist and poet, Michelangelo: criticize by creating.
• At the end of the day, the culture will treat the church the way the church treats the culture. And we're not called to condemn. We're called to redeem.

i woudl liketo say thanks to Mark at Evotional as he was able to put my thoughts on culture into for andhe didn't even know it. drop by his blog and be amazed

diversity, confomity, unity and division

I recently ducked out of going to the national meeting for the national work that my Church works with. With health, vehicle and school concerns, not to mention I thought the Church could use the money better toward local outreach, I did not go. Boy howdy, did I miss some interesting things.

At some point during the business sessions, a gentleman from southern state (not Texas) asked for a motion to be entertained. The motion he presented was that "for the sake of unity, all speakers use the Authorized Version only!" "for the sake of unity" is the part that drives me crazy. In his mind, if everyone that uses his preferred translation, we can be unified. in his mind, conformity is unity. It seems to me that in his "unifying" motion he actually was causing division as he making a translation preference a test of fellowship.

For many walk, of whom I often told you, and now tell you even weeping, that they are enemies of the cross of Christ, whose end is destruction, whose god is their appetite, and whose glory is in their shame, who set their minds on earthly things. (Php 3:18-19 NASB)

Later this same gentleman made an additional motion of the same spirit. This time he asked that only "Baptist" be allowed to present. He apparently had an issue that someone that was brought in to do special music was at Church that did not have "Baptist" in the name. The woman that sang was from a "Baptistic" community church and had been at a Baptist Church, and is Baptist at heart. The woman had only come to celebrate the Sovereignty of Christ and His Glory in Song. I wonder if at any point in her preparing to minister in song did she realize that she would be possible banned for not being “Baptist.”

Not only would this limit those who sing to being Baptist, but also the preaching, leadership conference and breakout sessions. In truth, even the great Charles Spurgeon would not be able to preach at our convention/association because he was never ordained by a Baptist Church (by his choice he was never ordained) nor did he ever pastor a Church with Baptist in the name.


The out come of this all was that wise people saw that these motions were tabled. And we will have to wait till next year when they meet in Waco, Tx to see what will happen.
A few more thoughts ...
Who authorized this Bible? The best reason to use the King James Bible is the precedent that it has be widely and predominately used for 400 years. Yet the KJVO crowd that presses that we must used the Bible that was used back at the 1611 time mark fail to realize that they would be dragging the Apocrypha back into the Church. Additionally, if we must use this Authorized Bible, then should not use the same Hymnody and play the same style of music. Why do we not dress the same, maybe we should bring back the wigs and robes!

One last thought …
When the man who proposed these motions began, he made sure to mention that he knew nothing of the Biblical languages, that he was ignorant of such. Why would you ever begin a charge with telling those you want to persuade to your view point with a statement that basically says “I have no clue what I am talking about?”

what it is my ace boon coon

"Bodily resurrection is what you get at the intersection point between the lines of God as the good and wise creator and God as the judge who will set everything right at last. Give up either, or both, and what you're left with isn't Christianity."

- Nicholas T. Wright, Jesus Lives or Christianity Dies Washingtonpost.com, (April 4, 2007)

Baptist History Celebration

It is not official yet, but quiet possibly, I will be at the Baptist History Celebration in Charleston, S.C. at the beginning of August. I’ll keep you up to date as this was my wife’s idea and not mine. I truly have the best wife in the world!

carson by the ton

if you happen to be a lover of D.A. Carson more than N.T. Wright then you must drop by Andy Naselli's Blog for for his pleathora of Carson Mp3 links. that's all pure carson by the truck load.

Baylor is #1

Baylor ranks highest of peers
[3/23/2007]

Relevant magazine ranked Baylor the No. 1 Christian college in the United States in its current issue. The magazine, whose tagline is "God. Life. Progressive Culture." rated colleges on academics, student life and spiritual life. The grades in each category were averaged and the magazine then listed the top five. Read the full story here.

Other winners included, in descending order, Calvin College, Pepperdine University, Wheaton College and Biola University - not so bad neighbors.

fight the good fight, not hit and run

I love pedagogary, especially when it is Christian higher education. This stuff butters my toast for some reason. As of late in the baptist circles it seems there is a fight to be a good school of real scholarship and Baptist. I don't see the problems myself with the mass exodus of colleges and university running from their Baptist breathern there must be some that feel a bit stiffled. In the Christian Post today there is an article about five N.C. colleges that want to seperate thier schools from their supporting brothers of faith. It seems in all cases of this type of sepertation, the problem stated is they feel that they need to be able to choose and appoint thier own trustees so they can be successul school of academia.

As you would have guessed i see it a bit diffrent. First if you can not intergrate you faith with scholarhsip you must not be the right leadership. Sorry if it hurts your feelings, but the Cross was public and so is our faith. faith and education must be fused or it will "Harvard" on us in a heart beat. Second, if you feel a man or woman is the proper trustee after countless hours of prayer and that this is the person that you feel God is calling to be a servant to the school as a trustee and they feel the same call, then it is your job to sell them. Just like the President has to market his appointees you will need to do the work to show your constituents that this is the right person. If the fact that you are not willing to do the work because it was be too time consuming and to diffcult comes into play you must not think that is truely the right person. It if is just to hard, then once again I would suggest that the problem might be that you are not postioned in the right place rather than everyone else is wrong because they have not been swayed by your lackadaisical attempt to persuade minds that hold diffrent views. This would be like giving up on the lost becuase they don't see it our way. oh, wait! We have done this too. It seems to me that administrators should fight the good fight and not resort to a childish

guerilla hit and run tatic.

Strong words yes, but I think they they have merit and are worthy of critital thinking.

Warning: more thoughs on such subjest are likely to be posted in the future.

banned for all the right reasons

Sometimes in life things puzzle me. Others leave me completely flabbergasted

Case in points is the the article featuring Brown University reinstating a suspened Christian group.

The thing the boggle the mind first is the lack of a known reason for being suspened. It almost seems that if the is no reason for the dismissal then it should have never have happened. maybe they jsut for got. maybe Brown actually violated someone's rights. who knows.

The second boggler is the lack of Christian love and compassion shown by "Allen Callahan, associate Brown chaplain, wrote in an e-mail to students that the group's leaders were 'contemptuous and dishonest'." wow, talk about grace and forgiveness.

the third and final mind blower(also the probably reason they were booted) is this, "The fellowship is aligned with a denomination that embraces Calvinism, opposes ordaining women and gays, and considers the Bible the inerrant Word of God." How evil they must be for seeing God as supreme and soveriegn, holding to a conservative and historically correct view of the pastorate, and to top it all of the really believe the Bible. how what were they thinking.

better or worse

For all though who have been waiting ...

I have finally been to the doctor now and have found out only minimal information about what caused me to black out while driving home from Seminary last week. The good doctor is now ordering many more tests and procedures, but she don't feel that they will reveal much of anything. Acutally, the doctor suspects the test will come back looking fine. She suggested that the problems is a virus. Now this sounded crazy to me but as I talked with more and more hospital staff I heard more stories of a virus that people have that are also fainting with. Crazy I say. The doc thinks that I had the samething that they had, only I was driving.