Thursday, December 14, 2006

taking time for tilly

MJTilly of The Foolishness of Preaching
and fellowship class wrote ...
Love that quote. But doesn't it seem to steer awfully closely to what some would perjoratively call "Lordship" salvation? I ask with two motives: 1) to point out that what some deride as a form of "works" salvation or legalism, may be more Biblical than it's given credit for -- see James for this perspective (of course, it should be noted for the record that I say that while in the midst of wrestling with this concept) and 2) to feel you out for your take on that subject.

This was in regards to a quote from Dr. Hulitt Gloer.

"Faith is trusting God with your life to the point of obedience."

Thanks for you honesty in your posting. I did not see the works angle in the quotation … but I’m still thinking about it. As for the Lordship Salvation, I personally do not see a problem with it. In truth I found that I was believed this prior to my discovery that there was a doctrine by that name. Later when I found that there was a heated controversy about it was shocked. I did not see it as an issue.

Lets us address the term “Lord” for a moment. The 1828 Webster’s Dictionary defines a lord as “a master; a person possessing supreme power and authority; a ruler; a governor.”
I think that Jesus has possessing supreme power and authority, that he does rule over and governs my life.

From Thayer’s –
1) He to whom a person or thing belongs, about which he has power of deciding; master, lord
1a) the possessor and disposer of a thing
1a1) the owner; one who has control of the person, the master
1a2) in the state: the sovereign, prince, chief, the Roman emperor
1b) is a title of honour expressive of respect and reverence, with which servants greet their master

Others like the New American, Easton’s, Vine’s only do more justice to the term “Lord” having authority over us.

So if we look at the term lord like this and bring in Romans 10:13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED," I think we are admitting that we are submitting ourselves to the Authority of Jesus.

Then look at Luke 6:46 “Why do you call Me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say? He Jesus gives us the idea that he does hold the clout of “Lord” and that obedience is suppose to come with it.

In closing I thing someone like John Piper could do a better job of bring the Lordship/obedience/faith

Additionally I think the quote deals more with the fact that as we grow in faith, we are trusting God more, we are surrendering more in the relationship and we are growing to be obedient in all area of are life. We submit ourselves more. Think sanctification.

More could be said and should be said about this, but my mind is a bit fuzzy at this moment and my eyelids droopy.
In closing a want to at least leave you with a few more verses that can kind of go with this. Are at least in my mind they do ….

Joh 14:21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."
Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.
Joh 14:24 "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father's who sent Me.

PS. You webpage for the Sunday School looks great!!! More that teach should do this.


MJTilley said...

First ... thank you for taking time to deal with my quesiton! I'm flattered.

Second ... I agree very heartily with your assessment. It seems that Scripture is full of examples of faith not simply being "belief" but actually trusting enough in some factual thing as to allow it to change your behavior. Said another way, if I have faith in Jesus Christ, I will not just believe He will save me, I will actually act as if my eternal destiny depended on His grace .. that is, that I will look to Him for my Everything.

"But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:" (I Cor. 1:30)

Third and finally, thank you for the compliment on the Sunday School class site. I've enjoyed keeping the site up, but I've lapsed a bit in the last few months. Hope to get back on track next year as we begin a series on the Doctrine of the Church.

Chris said...

I really dig you site. It looks great, good colors, nice lay out and hearty teaching. i hope to spend more time there in the future. You also seem to be one of the last true teachers. Too many Bible teachers and Sunday School teachers can not study and write a lesson. They must have a quarterly or a book to follow. This is a sad indictment on the Church.